OMG ALL THIS CHANGE I CAN’T BEAR IT ANYMORE
Social Listen to Deez Nutz
With the way they’re acting, you’d think that these dudes wanted Republicans to maintain control. Like, I don’t have a lot of faith in democrats to actually get the shit done that they need to, but the defeatism is absolutely absurd.
You’d think that but have a look at hexbear’s midterms containment thread. The way they speak about it internally is different. They are very happy the Republicans lost, they jsut don’t care that it’s the democrats who won.
As “one of those people” you are talking about, we’ve been here before. Yes, it feels awesome to get such a decisive victory over the republicans. I’ve seen this before. Over and over again. The pendulum has swung back to the left. But, just because we voted in a bunch of Dems, hell even a bunch of Socialists, that doesn’t mean they will, or even can, fix the most broken parts of this system. Democrats have enabled and even facilitated some of the worst aspects of what we’re seeing right now from Trump and Republicans. I mean, you yourself even admit it: “I don’t have a lot of faith in democrats to actually get the shit done that they need to”.
The difference is, we know what needs to be done. A really famous guy wrote about it over a 100 years ago. Having Blue majority didn’t improve anybody’s material conditions in the past. Why would it now? Yes, they’re “less bad”, but Dems are still pretty bad. What makes this time different?
I love the outcome of the election. It was a bloodbath. But I’m not deluding myself that wholesale change will ever come from national electeds. Defeatist? Maybe. I’m just tempering my expectations, even from DSA endorsed winners.
this post sums it up best imo. Prove me wrong. Prove all of us MLs and “tAnKiEs” wrong. Prove to us that voting can and does work, that we can materially improve people’s situations without protest.
Don’t get me wrong, I see what you’re saying and I generally agree with your leftist sentiments.
That said, you are incorrect that the Democrats have been totally unsuccessful in improving material conditions for people. I’m with you that it hasn’t nearly been far enough, but they did accomplish significant things for women and black people.
JFK passed the equal pay act. LBJ passed the civil rights act. Clinton passed the violence against women act. These things had an effect that was tangible, even if we need more.
In Texas, my grandmother wasn’t able to have her own bank account without my grandfather signing a permission note until John Connally, a Democrat, passed the Marital Property Act of 1967. My mother never had that problem because a Democrat changed the conditions for women in this country.
Do I want a true left to rise in the United States? Yes. Do I think the Democrats have any hope of fixing capitalism? No. BUT, this victory is sweet, and I’ll be raising a glass to the Democrats today anyway.
JFK passed the equal pay act. LBJ passed the civil rights act.
You’re skipping why those passed when they did. Postwar US was in a red scare, Communism spreading across Europe, fear of uprisings at home, and that fear forced progressive concessions. The one era of capitalism people romanticize is that one, and it was shaped by fear of Communism plus massive grassroots working-class movements. JFK and LBJ didn’t pass those laws out of kindness. Cities were burning, people were organizing at rates this country had never seen, demanding better material conditions.
Clinton passed the violence against women act
This law was very limited and a classic neolib policy. It did not, in fact, dismantle any systems of oppression. It was another concession to the feminist “radicals” of the era.
In Texas, my grandmother wasn’t able to have her own bank account without my grandfather signing a permission note until John Connally, a Democrat, passed the Marital Property Act of 1967. My mother never had that problem because a Democrat changed the conditions for women in this country.
Democrats didn’t do this though. That’s my whole point. Sure they may have signed the law, but the pressure and the framing came from socialists and activists, through fear of revolution, strikes, boycotts. Yours is a standard liberal talking point, and it whitewashes history and erases the struggle that was actually fought for.
Do I want a true left to rise in the United States? Yes. Do I think the Democrats have any hope of fixing capitalism? No. BUT, this victory is sweet, and I’ll be raising a glass to the Democrats today anyway.
On this we agree. Victory was sweet yesterday. I’m mostly celebrating. But we need to continue to organize and fight for what we want. Capitalists and billionaire oligarchs will not just give us what we want out of the kindness of their hearts. That’s simply not how any of this works. Don’t become a “If Harris won we’d be at brunch” kind of person.
Respectfully, stand down, comrade! I’m on your side and not becoming a Kamala brunch enthusiast. I appreciate your opinions on history and thank you for sharing your thoughts.
The fight definitely continues, but a little win feels nice. I can go back to my usual full on class warfare in the morning.
I’m more just shouting at clouds than at you specifically. Cheers! 🥃
roosevelt
The tankies want Trump to win because they think that after he’s destroyed the US, a socialist utopia will rise from the ashes.
A theocratic autocracy will rise from the ashes. Unless you kids have done more prep work that you let on, your not winning the war if it goes hot, and the crazies with stockpiles and organization in place have the advantage over unprepared forum users.
There will be several theocracies arising in various places. And they’ll all be at eternal holy war with each other.
At least some one will keep the ashes warm for us.
Not a single tankie believes in utopic socialism
Of course not. But it’s what they claim to believe in.
No?
You have a very warped view of what Socialists believe in.
I’m talking specifically about tankies, you know that kind of people who worship the likes of Putin and Xi and root for Hamas and the Houthis.
I dont care about putin and Xi but I support hamas and houthis for resisting zionist forces
what does that make me?
Supporting fascists makes you a fascist. Just because they fight against other fascists doesn’t make it better in any way.
“tankie” is pejorative term used by fascists and libs for Socialists and Communists. the people who use the term tankie unironically often denounce many or all existing Socialist states (Cuba, China, DPRK, etc) as “authoritarian”.
I repeat: You have a very warped view of what Socialists believe in.
Yeah. Couldn’t have said it better myself.
Socialists believe in a real try at social equality. Tankies believe you must murder people or at least ignore large amounts of suffering to force it in one fell swoop.
Tankies believe you must murder people or at least ignore large amounts of suffering to force it in one fell swoop.
yes, because tankies arent utopian and they know real change takes sacrifices, and it has happened throughout history
Real utopians are those who think we can liberate mankind without death and violence
Lmao show us anybody claiming any of this shit.
No, nobody has said this, lmao.
I’ve seen a lot of hysteria around “tankies” since I started using Lemmy and I gotta say I really don’t get it. Yes, there are people here who are to the left of Democrats. No, that doesn’t make them the enemy, or secretly MAGA or Russian or whatever. They just… disagree with liberals. I see opinions attributed to “everyone from a .ml community” that I’ve never seen from any of the actual users. People gleefully brag about blocking swaths of other users, yet I’ve almost never seen any .ml user actually being as toxic as they get branded. I’m pretty sure I’ve even heard people say that you are a particularly bad one, but I haven’t witnessed it.
Also, lemmy was created by ml’s right? It’s one thing to have very little tolerance for different political opinions, but it’s another thing entirely to literally just be the gray characters from this meme and still somehow think you’re in the right.
I think people generally think of themselves as progressive when they come here, and it might be their first run-in with revolutionary socialists. They get caught between their progressive beliefs, largely around the Bernie/AOC area, and this suddenly new group (to them) of people that despise reformism and the Democrats almost as much as the Republicans. It creates a lot of friction, IMO. And yea, Lemmy was and is made by MLs, which means we have a permanent foothold here.
Have you tried browsing hexbear.net and Lemmygrad.ml? Lemmy.ml has its own vibe because we don’t really defederate from anyone, but Lemmygrad.ml and Hexbear.net are pretty good examples of what “tankies” are like when we aren’t getting into constant squabbles with liberals. You’ll see tons of queer people, a lot of passionate people, and a lot of normalcy, to be honest.
I like hexbears cute pictures, even if they dont like me. lol
I’ve seen a lot of hysteria around “tankies” since I started using Lemmy and I gotta say I really don’t get it
I used to think this but then discovered that most of the actual tankies are blocked by my instance.
By contrast I pointed my browser to lemmy.ml just now and the front page includes a celebration of “Russia Unity Day”, a reading group for “Soviet Democracy”, and three “good news only” type puff pieces about China. There’s definitely a solid bloc of propagandists out there.
As others have said, they want to run that kind of instance I don’t actually have any huge beef with it. To an extent I think it’s good to have some other perspectives and news sources. Just be aware that that’s who people are talking about when they talk about “tankies”, not the people who post stuff critical of the Democratic Party.
People should run their lemmy instance as they want.
The non stop feudposting about what people do in their own instance is ridiculous. Block the instance and move on with your life if you need to. Block me to while youre at it! Who cares?
It seems there is some other agenda at play with those who are on this dumb ass crusade against .ml
Most content from .ml users likely isn’t even political, so people certainly overstate how prevalent radicalism is. Lemmy is part of the fediverse and isn’t a reserved political space any more than any other part of it. But you are much more likely to see controversial positions from the “tankie triad” compared to other instances and other social media. It is one of the few big instances where you can find popular support for Russia over Ukraine or denying the Uyghur genocide for example.
If they believe that then they should vote for Republicans.
If they don’t vote for Republicans, then their non-voting stance was actually either cowardice or laziness.
This is very incorrect.
I’m not going to lie, as an outsider this always seems to be the case. Could you explain what you actually want and what you could see realistically happening if the fascists won?
Could you explain what you actually want
Simply put: I don’t want billionaires controlling every single aspect of society, as they do now.
If you’d like to read more, I agree with all of this.. I also agree with all of this.
what you could see realistically happening if the fascists won?
Arguably, and I would, the fascists are already in control. Just think of the tech enshittification at the hands of technofascists. Think of the endless wars; how much say in those wars do you truly believe you have? Think of the military budget outspending every single other country combined. We are the most powerful and richest country in the history of this planet … and 50% of americans can’t afford a 1 bedroom apartment. Americans can’t afford groceries. Real wages have been stuck in the 1970s. We are bankrupting ourselves with medical and student debt. Nobody can afford a house. Kids still in cages, guantanamo bay still operating, ICE record funding every year,
How much say do you have at your job? Unions are being squashed and suppressed. Have you attended a pro-gaza rally lately? How did the police treat you?
…I want a better world in which the 99% actually have a say, actually have a better life, and we don’t have 1% of people hoarding all the power and wealth of the world. This IS possible.
That sounds amazing, but somehow our methods for achieving it always end up opposed.
Not who you asked, but I want socialism, which requires revolution, which itself requires a mass working class revolutionary party, a militant and class conscious working class, and instability within the capitalist class. The first two are directly actionable through joining socialist orgs like PSL and doing large amounts of outreach, agitation, etc. The latter is out of our control, no matter if the Democrats or Republicans win in elections, and is more a matter of course as capitalism decays.
Fascism isn’t something that can be elected. Fascism is when the capitalist class oversteps the legal boundaries and restricts the civil rights of the country, when bourgeois democracy is replaced with outright direct rule by capital. Republicans winning or losing does not actually increase or decrease the chance of fascism, because fascism is a response to economic conditions and rising socialist organizing outside of the legal system.
This is important, because it means Democrats winning does not stop fascism. Fascism is out of the control of the working class, and can only be prevented by socialism, and stopped once in action by fighting it directly. In either case, mass socialist organizing is both the vaccine and the cure for fascism, depending on the timeline.
Fascism is when the capitalist class oversteps the legal boundaries and restricts the civil rights of the country, when bourgeois democracy is replaced with outright direct rule by capital.
Seems like democrats getting elected does help alleviate fascism then?
Also, what do you mean by “fighting it directly”?
Democrats getting elected doesn’t alleviate the risk of fascism, because as I said, it’s the capitalist class overstepping the legal boundaries. Democrats can legislate all they want against fascism (which they won’t do, let’s be honest), but the point is that capital does not care what is legal, and holds the actual power in society by owning the commanding heights of the economy. It can directly implement fascism without the consent of the DNC.
As for fighting it directly, a socialist revolution prevents the risk of fascism by taking the commanding heights from the capitalist class. In the case of fascism, socialist revolution is what can end it most effectively. In either case, armed struggle is almost certainly necessary, but it’s far cleaner before fascism actually is implemented than after.
There is always a risk of fascism. My point is that fascist policies are implemented and acted upon far more often under R rule than D, and prosecuted more under D than R.
I have seen that sentiment directly expressed many times and I’ve seen it implied many times. Still see it despite blocking the shit out of sources of those kinds of opinions. Just today someone said to me “if you don’t think it should be burned down now, what would it take?”
I’m old enough to remember Blue Waves hitting the rocks of Decorum and Civility and doing fuck all. I’m not getting my hopes up ever again.
And you’re gonna try your best to pass that feeling on
If I keep these thoughts inside they’ll take me to the grippy sock hotel.
Plus you know me. You know this isn’t my best. I’m sorry to disappoint but I’ve been dealing with the bullshit that happens no matter who got elected.
Do I know you? I’ve seen you make reasonable comments and then today multiple doomer ones. I don’t think I know you, but I do think you seem somewhat open to feedback even if you do make excuses.
I make doomer comments all the time
Noted.
U mad?
BLue mAgA
With the way they’re acting, you’d think that these dudes wanted Republicans to maintain control.
Oh believe me, they do. I’ve literally been told how much more awful Democrats are than Republicans. IIRC, the reasoning behind that was some vague shit about liberals watering down true leftism or something. Like, yeah, one side wants to establish a fascist totalitarian government and has literally set out to murdering foreigners and dissenters with ICE, but hey, your identity politics are more important.
As a Canadian, I’m seeing too many people thinking everything can now immediately go back to “normal”. None of the actual work has started yet.
Yes, absolutely celebrate this, but if you act like things are “over” you need a reality check. Americans voted against Trump in 2020, and then elected him again after seeing what he did the first time.
So yes, this is absolutely a great first step, but it needs to be followed with criminals being held accountable and Americans not voting the other way again in 2 or 4 years. Considering Democratic leaders are already talking about not holding criminals accountable it seems prudent to splash some water on people acting like this is over and they can stop pushing.
I was spending my time volunteering for Democrats campaigns, and I’m still barely enthused with the result.
It’s a very small step forward in a possibility of a government that works for its people. But anyone smart on here knows that goes much more fine-grained than the color maps.
(Red is obvious. But blue? Blue is still many shades of gray)
Carville hasn’t been remotely relevant in a decade.
It’s not defeatism. It’s acknowledging the reality of the situation. They can pass all the wonderful legislation they want. Trump will veto it and they do not have a veto proof majority. He has already said he is going to become “Mr. Veto”.
What a status quo comment, 2n2voa. Whether its easily successful or not, the dem reps should be fighting, and doing their job as a check and balance on the executive branch.
If I’m parsing this right… Good? Right after elections is like, the best possible time for critique. Didn’t want to say it yesterday, but fuck blue MAGA the two party system and the rachet effect. There’s no such thing as a good politician, and less bad isn’t enough. Voting is harm reduction, I’m glad we picked methadone over fent but am still looking to get clean.
It’s a good time to critique the body of work of the current Congress.
For the new electorates it seems fair to wait until…they’ve actually taken office?
Why not just wait until they’ve retired, hindsight is 20/20 after all
Or, hear me out, now that they’ve got the job of representing us it’s the perfect time to call them out, hold them accountable, and try to make sure they actually do so
Dang I’m not nominating you for the Buc Nasty award. Very solid hatin
Thanks, I try ;)
If it weren’t for the “blue maga” mention, I can take this comment seriously and agree with it 98%. Given that every cultlike Democrat that has ever existed wouldn’t outnumber the maga ones who currently live in a single county in Florida, this is a disingenuous term that destroys the credibility of anyone using it.
I genuinely can’t parse your critique, but find it a funny and apt term for a certain type of person. Political merch cash cows and the “forever war but inclusive” corpos they fall in behind. Feels like the Cali governor is the next one they’re propping up, for a more concrete example. “I’m with her” t-shirts while Bernie was getting fucked over is another
I don’t quite believe that you don’t get what you’re doing or what issue I have with the term “blue maga”. It’s obviously meant to compare rabid racist sociopaths to some democrat equivalent. Every trump supporter I’ve conversed with in my life has copped to zero negative facts about trump. Most they’d ever admit is “he doesn’t always hold back” or some shit. Meanwhile I’ve known many Democratic voters. Most of which aren’t even really that knowledgeable, and yet, they were always open to criticism of Democrats. They rarely make excuses for them. I’ve only known 2 people who like Biden and maybe 1 who liked Kamala. Almost universally, Democratic voters would be in favor of prosecuting Democrats who commit crimes. Meanwhile Republicans cover for a known rapist pedophile.
What you’re intentionally doing is pretending there’s anything comparable about the two groups of voters. You know there’s not much there to compare. And because I know you must know this, you have given up your credibility. Pretty simple really.
…one thing I am sure of is that you’re putting words in my mouth, assuming my intentions, and generally being an asshole. I never had any credibility, I’m a random fuckin shitposter like yourself. At least I know it! Really should know better than to engage too, but yes there are absolutely people delusional enough to deny the crimes of their chosen tribe wherever you look and your anecdotal bullshit is exactly the kind of “evidence” that lets them get away with it
Like I said, when you used that term you knew what you were doing and I wouldn’t expect you to drop the pretense now.
Lmao just noticed your claim that I’m the same as a pedophile cover-upper because I accurately conveyed the demeanor of people I’ve known in real life.
I am glad, even proud, to still have no idea what your problem is lol. Enjoy downvoting every reply I’ve been baitied into wasting on you, not feeling the need to reciprocate that is enough of a win for me
His problem is that the term describes him and he doesn’t like it.
You know exactly what my problem is. Both before and after I expanded on it. Contrary to your “you’re a troll just baiting people” claim, you can rest assured this is the last time you will hear back.
I’m realistic, but also allowed myself to be happy yesterday. Life should be enjoyed. I’m mostly excited about my local elections, as there is a much higher chances of things changing for the better in my state and county.
I keep saying that this is just the start, but also as a Texan what a hell of a start.
Howdy, neighbor! It felt great to wake up in a blue Texas!
I say that I hate the haters. But also my enthusiasm is dampened a little by the fact that we had to even experience this because people are soooo fucking stupid.
I literally talked to a middle aged gay man recently who admitted he barely understood what happened Tuesday “Oh we elected a new governor? Or something? What are midterms?”
Its like DUUUUDE THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT HOW ARE YOU SO OBLIVIOUS???
In my friend group the two people least interested in politics are a queer guy and a hispanic guy. The rest of us are straight white dudes. I am always baffled that they are not more invested as people who are more likely to be negatively impacted.
Ya like, good that we aren’t going to back slide into autocracy just yet. But like the reason is because the autocrats were so incredibly stupid and incompetent they did things that are directly tied to raising prices on everyone. If gas prices were low, this would have been like 2018.
Kimmel did a man-on-the-street piece on Wednesday where they asked subjects if they intended to vote. Most had no idea the elections were over.
::reads thread::
::awards OP the “most accurate shitpost” award::
Hate hate hate hate!
I read this in Chris Ray Gun’s voice
I’ll believe in blue wave when the American empire contracts, it recalls its military, closes the global bases and releases everyone from their gulag supermaxxes
or even enforces its own laws consistently
So never. It’s okay to celebrate little wins. It keeps the motivation and determination going. Otherwise people lose hope and that’s bad.
There hasn’t been any wins yet, just an election. I’ll believe it when they end the war in my country. I’m not a USAmerican so I don’t have any hope for them. I just want them to stop doing what they’ve done to my family.
“I’m very upset about what you said about my coat. I made it outta your mother’s pubic hair.” - Silky Johnston
Now if you’ll excuse me, I gotta go put some water in Buck Nasty’s mama’s dish.
should I wade into 4chan/pol/ to drink in the salt, or is it not worth it to give them the attention and have them scrape me for whatever data might leak out?
EDIT : They’re just blaming jews, but calling them “talmundists”. Also, they adapted the n-word to use against magas, by making it into an m-word and keeping the rest the same
Policies are a spectrum. We do need to remain mindful of the similarities and the differences between red and blue. If there are overlapping similarities that we don’t like, we speak out, or not.
That’s what we said all the way. Vote blue, but don’t expect it to be magic pill. A truly democratic government is the one accountable to its people.
The election results should be a wake up call. People are ready for the change, and are pissed with the government in a very bad way.
It is a victory right here nonetheless. One of many coming forward, I hope.
That’s what we said all the way.
Yes, to your credit you probably said this, and a whole bunch of folks with you. But I’ve been in plenty of conversations with folks who outright deny that Biden is fully complicit in the Gaza genocide, or even worse, acknowledge this but then go “no biggie!”
Present!
(Please I am begging you Americans to keep up the pressure! Keep going for woke!)
We’ve seen Obama drone kill kids at weddings in Pakistan. We have seen this circus before.
Yes! Found one!
NO PWEASE DON’T BRING UP THE WAR CRIMES I HAVE NO TRUE MORAL GROUND TO ARGUE AGAINST IT PWEASE.
You either get Blue Peter Theil puppet or Red Peter Theil Puppet. The Money Behind Hakeem Jeffries
Here! Found another!
Forever at your disservice.
You saw it? Did he pilot the drone? Did he purposefully aim at the wedding? Did he target children?
If he is blameless that way and we cannot blame soldiers who just follow orders, then who should take responsibility ever? (The answer is both are at fault if you need to spell it out btw)
Don’t put words in another person’s mouth. You know what they meant. Don’t play dumb to enrage the comment section.Edit: Okay wrote without reading the whole comment. They’re being a dick too.
Lemmy.ml for sure be like that. Bunch of sourpusses
I’m surprised it took so long, still can’t believe he got reelected after his first shit term.
He was already the worst President. “No war” my ass
Next step is to get Trump and Trumpism out of the White House for good. Trump is the worst President in living memory, maybe the worst ever, and his administration has done generational damage. For the Democrats, it can’t go back to business as usual after Trump, because that’s setting things up for another Trump in the future. It’s time to stick two fingers up to the billionaire class and start making radical changes for ordinary Americans.
They entire party needs to be taken over top to bottom, because realistically the current crop in the higher echelons aren’t going to do shit as they’re spineless and they’re bought. It’s time they started actually getting punished for their inaction.
I’m not confident of seeing any meaningful positive change, but I am very pleased to see Republicans lose. That’s my main take away from this. I do hope that Americans hold their lesser evils to account.
Yeah. At this point the last thing I want democrats to be, is complacent. Especially the newly elected democratic politicians.
Don’t leave them to think they can just sit on their ass doing nothing in office. They’re there to fight republicans and make the country better.
