• NABDad@lemmy.worldEnglish
    5·
    1 day ago

    What you don’t realize is the holy spirit was spying on them, recorded the conversation, and sold it to the local tabloid.

  • lugal@sopuli.xyz
    91·
    2 days ago

    Can you cite these passages? Because from my memory, when he’s praying alone, the content of his prayer isn’t recorded and that barely happens at all. There are other things that show that the gospels aren’t historical but please stick to the facts.

    Edit: I was wrong, it actually does happen:

    Then he said to them, ‘My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me.’ Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, ‘My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.’ Then he returned to his disciples and found them sleeping. ‘Couldn’t you men keep watch with me for one hour?’ he asked Peter. ‘Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.’

    Matthew 26;38-41

    • selokichtli@lemmy.ml
      3·
      2 days ago

      Disclaimer: I’m an agnostic. Also, the Evangelists are supposed to write as if God himself was in control of their writing, so, effectively, it would be God himself writing those words.

  • Etterra@discuss.onlineEnglish
    14·
    2 days ago

    Mine is the part where Moses went up the mountain, tripped balls for a while, write down some laws, came back down and threw a fit because the people had relapsed into their old religion, and smashed the law tablets like a dumbass.

  • Mulligrubs@lemmy.worldEnglish
    1254·
    3 days ago

    Official explanation: The Holy Spirit narrated to the author. This can be quite removed, some books were written many years after the event, some were passed down.

    A few centuries later, the Council of Nicea went through all of these texts and decided, “This is real, we can tell, we’re putting this in the Bible. That… that other stuff is fake, yuck! Gross. Heresy.”

    They also resolved a pressing issue for the new church. “Priests, please stop cutting your balls off, that is a metaphor, not literal instruction. Even though He said that they were literal instructions, that was also a metaphor.”

    “Oh, just one more thing… you can’t get married. No, He didn’t say that, but we’re inspired by the Magic Bird, so mote it be.”

    You probably think I’m joking… but sadly, no.

    p.s. the church pays no taxes womp womp

    • America@sh.itjust.works
      29·
      3 days ago

      My favorite bit of Christian lore is the time that predestination became a widespread belief. People cursed god and the church and sinned 30x harder, recognizing that if they did it, they were always meant to. In the absence of choice, people found hedonism not just agreeable but compulsory. Then the church solved that issue by telling people that they could actually get into heaven by paying. People got so pissed off that a sect splintered off, and I think that how we got Protestants.

      Someone please tell me how many different events I erroneously mixed together.

      • humanspiral@lemmy.ca
        3·
        2 days ago

        Luther and Calvin started off with Niecea and Trinity are complete BS mistranslations of original greek, and you can be your own priest = “conscience interpreting Jesus words as meaningful”. It ended up with Trinity is best, and only Calvin was allowed to be his own priest, and you should be killed for having believed the first version. I don’t know about paying for sin, but how else can a pastor get a G6?

        • America@sh.itjust.works
          3·
          1 day ago

          Paying for sin was called indulgences. At first, it was to quell other issues and make money. But then it just turned into a way to make money. Vast piles of money. Personal money, as you alluded.

    • scathliath@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      2·
      2 days ago

      To be fair, the “You can’t get married” issue happened seven hundred years later under Gregory the Seventh, and at the time, the other patriarchs who remained following the rise of Islam thought the Archbishop of Rome, the Pope, was nuts too. Which is why Coptic and Greek Orthodox priests can marry, along with Protestant priests. All arguing “Christ never said you needed to absolutely forgoe sex, that was Paul and Peter.”

      • Mulligrubs@lemmy.worldEnglish
        2·
        1 day ago

        “This great synod absolutely forbids a bishop, presbyter, deacon or any of the clergy to keep a woman who has been brought in to live with him, with the exception of course of his mother or sister or aunt, or of any person who is above suspicion.”

        This is what I was referring to, from the First Council of Nicaea.

        https://www.papalencyclicals.net/councils/ecum01.htm

        • scathliath@lemmy.dbzer0.com
          1·
          1 day ago

          Honestly, I might eat my hat here and go on a rabbit hole about early priestly marriage myself.

          “This great synod absolutely forbids a bishop, presbyter, deacon or any of the clergy to keep a woman who has been brought in to live with him, with the exception of course of his mother or sister or aunt, or of any person who is above suspicion.” Okay, so as you know, from your source; phrased as so.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea The wikipedia provides some clarification on the issue. “prohibition of a man and a woman who have both taken vows of chastity to live together in a chaste and non-legalized partnership (the so-called virgines subintroductae, who practiced syneisaktism)” the last word being a Greek term for “spiritual marriage” which was chaste, but also unofficial in the eyes of the law? I’m not sure I’m reading it correctly myself.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syneisaktism

    • tomi000@lemmy.world
      20·
      3 days ago

      Official explanation: The Holy Spirit narrated to the author.

      You mean the four authors who all wrote the same story but slightly different?

      Holy spirit talking to people must have been common back then. Strange how it just stopped.

      • Mulligrubs@lemmy.worldEnglish
        2·
        2 days ago

        Oh, it hasn’t stopped, friend.

        Go to any Assembly of God church on Sunday; they are inspired my the Holy Spirit, and speak in tongues! Holy Spirit talks to all who will listen.

        The Bible teaches that when you accept Christ, the Magic Bird infuses you with superior wisdom and intellect. This is why you can be sure that your thoughts are legitimate and righteous.

    • M137@lemmy.today
      1·
      2 days ago

      “This can be quite removed”

      What? I’m not sober so it’s very possible I’m just bring stupid and not understanding the words, they just make no sense to me at the moment and I can’t figure out what you were trying to write (in the case of me not being dumb right now).

      • historicaldocuments@lemmy.world
        3·
        2 days ago

        “Quite removed” in terms of time.

        It means that the church failed to destroy records about how the stuff they peddle wasn’t written anywhere near the events they supposedly describe. You’re supposed to spend years studying the book upon threat of physical violence or death until you reach a point where you’re too invested in the mythos to bother questioning it. You’re supposed to NOT study all the figures that we have written records of that predate the jesus myth:

      • Mulligrubs@lemmy.worldEnglish
        1·
        2 days ago

        No, that’s death penalty!

        Oh, wait, it says “man”, can’t lay with a “man”, not boy. Hmm. Best to ask for forgiveness just to cover your ass.

        It’s certainly okay to murder a boy if he has been disrespectful or disobedient. (Please note that this is not my personal view, this is Biblical, I didn’t write it please don’t call ICE on me).

        18 If someone has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, 19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20 They shall say to the elders, “This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard.” 21 Then all the men of his town are to stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid. ~Deuteronomy 21:18-21

        Beatings are also fine from a Bible perspective, but not too much… but don’t spare the rod (Proverbs 13:24)! Read your Bible for further details (I recommend King James 1611).

    • VindictiveJudge@lemmy.worldEnglish
      3·
      3 days ago

      “Oh, just one more thing… you can’t get married. No, He didn’t say that, but we’re inspired by the Magic Bird, so mote it be.”

      Didn’t that one come later because certain members of the clergy were having kids and functionally turning their positions into hereditary fiefdoms?

      • Mulligrubs@lemmy.worldEnglish
        2·
        2 days ago

        This great synod absolutely forbids a bishop, presbyter, deacon or any of the clergy to keep a woman who has been brought in to live with him, with the exception of course of his mother or sister or aunt, or of any person who is above suspicion.

        This is what i was referring to, but it may have been a later council? It’s canon from what I’ve read, but not specifically about marriage, but “keeping a woman”.

        https://www.papalencyclicals.net/councils/ecum01.htm

      • ℍ𝕂-𝟞𝟝@sopuli.xyzEnglish
        3·
        3 days ago

        IiRC it was more so that the Church got actual fiefdoms and wanted control so that potential priestly families wouldn’t just distance themselves into secular noble houses, taking lands with them.

        Fiefdoms and related duties originated from kings, so the church wanted similar parallel rights over their vassal priests.

    • jimmy90@lemmy.world
      11·
      2 days ago

      there’s a whole section of the library called fiction

      it’s going to blow your mind

    • Krafty Kactus@sopuli.xyzEnglish
      12·
      3 days ago

      FYI, the council of Nicea had nothing to do with biblical canon. That’s a common misconception.

  • magnolia_mayhem@lemmy.world
    11·
    2 days ago

    Just the fact that he needed to talk to him is a problem enough. I was raised with the understanding that they were the same person.

  • MinnesotaGoddam@lemmy.worldEnglish
    4·
    2 days ago

    Wait no I changed mine it’s when they put Jesus in a hole, then put a giant wheel of cheese in front of the hole.

    The reason Jesus ain’t come back is he needs our help to eat all that cheese and get out of the hole

    [now that I think about it I might be able to start a cult around cheese. I told my wife no more cults, but I didn’t promise. Plus, cheese. Maybe she wants to join this one]

  • ekZepp@lemmy.worldEnglish
    1·
    1 day ago

    The note-guy name was Bob. But he was quite shy so you won’t find many notes about him in the old text.

  • agent_nycto@lemmy.world
    21·
    2 days ago

    I hate it when I go and do something and then tell someone about it and they are like “no one else was there so it didn’t happen”.

    I’m not saying Jesus is real or anything but like, he coulda just don’t stuff and went back to his boyfriends and been like “hey wild shit I prayed and good was like what up”

  • ceenote@lemmy.world
    201·
    3 days ago

    The part where Moses writes down his own death and funeral is also pretty trippy.

    I also like how John keeps saying “BTW Jesus totally liked me more than the other disciples. Beloved, even.”

  • Acid_Burn@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    10·
    3 days ago

    I still think it’s wild that no one really talks about how the order of the books after the gospels is shortest to longest with Revalation (some truly crazy ass shit) tacked on at the end.

    • some_guy@lemmy.sdf.orgEnglish
      8·
      3 days ago

      The best part, in my opinion, is the extra ending in Mark. This was the original ending, which is an absolute banger:

      When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices so that they might go to anoint Jesus’ body. 2 Very early on the first day of the week, just after sunrise, they were on their way to the tomb 3 and they asked each other, “Who will roll the stone away from the entrance of the tomb?”

      But when they looked up, they saw that the stone, which was very large, had been rolled away. 5 As they entered the tomb, they saw a young man dressed in a white robe sitting on the right side, and they were alarmed.

      “Don’t be alarmed,” he said. “You are looking for Jesus the Nazarene, who was crucified. He has risen! He is not here. See the place where they laid him. 7 But go, tell his disciples and Peter, ‘He is going ahead of you into Galilee. There you will see him, just as he told you.'”

      Trembling and bewildered, the women went out and fled from the tomb. They said nothing to anyone, because they were afraid.

      This is in later versions, likely because someone copying the text found the ending to be insufficient:

      When Jesus rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had driven seven demons. She went and told those who had been with him and who were mourning and weeping. When they heard that Jesus was alive and that she had seen him, they did not believe it.

      Afterward Jesus appeared in a different form to two of them while they were walking in the country. These returned and reported it to the rest; but they did not believe them either.

      Later Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen him after he had risen.

      He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”

      After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God. Then the disciples went out and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked with them and confirmed his word by the signs that accompanied it.

      But remember, kids: the bible is all true and infallible and the word of god and whatever other crap they tell you.

      Criticism aside, I’m a hardcore atheist and reading about the history of early christianity (first ~300 years) was absolutely fascinating and I’d recommend checking out the subject to others who oppose organized religion. Bart Ehrman would be a good starting point, though can you go down quite a rabbit hole beyond his writing. This might be a good jumping off point: How Jesus Became God

      • humanspiral@lemmy.ca
        3·
        2 days ago

        is there a story over why Jeusus’s body was entombed with a big rock? Was the big rock put there by people who loved Jesus or Zombie panicked haters of Jesus?

      • humanspiral@lemmy.ca
        1·
        2 days ago

        Better title for that book would be How Jesus became do onto others with full righteousness of being the chosen people. The common matter declaration by Constantine (not even the pope) at Nicea, became Moses’s whoever doesn’t support the emperor’s wars is a heretic to be put to death. P.S. Santa Claus was a dick.

  • TigerAce@lemmy.dbzer0.com
    122·
    3 days ago

    My favorite part is how well it can be used to light a fireplace. Just tear out some pages, put some wood over it and light it. Secundair use is rolling paper when you’ve run out.