To be fair, nfts and vr were never forced on consumers quite like AI is. VR is incredible for certain types of gaming. NFTs are also incredible too. They allow you to quickly identify morons with disposable income.
Correct, the only idiotic thing about VR is buying your hardware from Mark Zuckerberg. As the folks in the VR community here are already aware, I got my Steam Frame the other day and basically the only reason I’ve had to take it off my face since then is because the thing has a finite battery life.
It also has the valve factor. In a landscape that consumer electronics are anti consumer, it’s more alluring to buy something you might not need if it’s not enshitified.
For example, I don’t really need a steam controller but boy do I want one.
I don’t want to sound like too much of a fanboy, but I’ve owned every first-party device of theirs so far, even the old physical Steam Link, the OG Controller, and the Vive which I count as theirs, and they’ve consistently hit the sweet spot of what I want out of hardware:
No hostility to the user; very tinkerer friendly; a good balance of build quality, ergonomics, and features without going into diminishing returns; long-lasting software support (even the market failure of the Steam Link has recent firmware updates); forwarding wider Linux and gaming software ecosystems; etc.
At this point, I’m just grabbing them if I have even an occasional use case for them, and I don’t regret it one bit. My Frame comes in tomorrow, and I’m very excited.
It’s a good product that doesn’t request you to sell your soul to use it. It’s definitely expensive but for people who have that money and are into VR it’s the best thing ever.
Can you explain why you love it so much? I was going to give it away to my friend that did not win the lottery after only a day.
Battery life is terrible.
Interface outside of games is super unintuitive imnho. I still can’t figure out how to actually move the central window or right clock in desktop mode.
I also can’t figure out how to install apks. I want to install android plex.
And the game I had super high expectations for, the 11 table tennis is meh.
Overall my experience has been very sweaty and frustrating.
I’m genuinely curious if it really sucks or I’m just not the target audience. I really wanted to love it, but I find it not worth the money at all. Like $500 maybe would’ve been ok. To be clear, I’m very technical - both professionally and as a hobby.
You can move the main center window and the dashboard bar by grabbing the long skinny horizontal stripe beneath either them, same as moving any other floating window. Unless you hit “float in world” on the center window the dashboard/taskbar/clock will remain pinned to the bottom of it.
The inverse L shaped grab handle on the lower right of any window allows you to resize it. When you are holding it, pushing the analog stick forward or back will move it closer to you or farther away.
Word on the street is that you can use FrameDrop to put .apks (and other executables) into your Frame’s library. I haven’t had occasion to try it; my main interest in onboard software has been regular productivity-ish apps that run natively in Linux. I stream actual games from my desktop PC, which is approximately three million times more powerful than the Frame itself.
As far as I can tell, VR is 100% fully realized. In the future, you will be able to do everything you can do in VR right now and nothing more than that, but it will be a better experience, smoother, higher res, faster frame rates.
I think that it if there were a really compelling use case, people would put up with the current technical limitations to go do it.
I think we’ll slowly see adoption rise as software support & comfort improve, but this is basically the VR landscape: sims, games, porn, and some creative stuff.
I think the only really ground breaking thing would be if res became affordable enough to replace a 70" TV at a reasonable price, that–plus how much 3D kicks ass in VR–would definitely move some units.
I get nauseated very fast with a vr headset and I don’t think it will improve, there have been several generations of improvements where people have told me they are so good now, and every time I feel like crap within a minute or two.
I think that is another major problem with vr, it’s unusable by some percentage of people that I think is significant enough to affect the market (or lack thereof).
You’re absolutely right that is a major problem. The biggest reason is the mismatch between what your inner ear says (we are not moving) and what your eyes tell you (we are moving). I get nauseous really easily in VR.
That said I just bought a steam frame and have had pretty good luck because of how I’m using it. It’s completely wireless and I have a large space I can use it in. So I’ve been playing things that don’t require fast movement and where you have a space to explore / move around in. This allows me to physically walk around the real room while exploring in VR. It’s made a huge difference but not everyone has the luxury of a big empty room they can use for that. I just mention this in case anyone else was like me and wants to do VR but gets nauseous easily.
Yup, that’s definitely a real problem for broad adoption. Technically solvable, I think, if lag and frame rates improve enough, but I don’t know if it’s feasible, and there’s likely a bell curve where the cost to accomodate sensitive people isn’t worth it.
It’s also possible you could train yourself to get used to it, though it might take you more time than most, but what would be a stong enough motivation to get through that? And you’d need to basically buy a VR head set and wear it a few more seconds every day until you could get some use out of it. Pretty insane ask.
It’s like chatbots, I don’t have a use case for a computer kissing my ass. People tell me “oh set it up on your home computer and VPN in and then you can confidentially tell your sycophantic chatbot to cancel the meeting”.
The chatbot is just as likely to tell you it canceled the meeting without cancelling the meeting.
There was a recent talk by the guy that started Zoom and he was pushing an AI technology that would attend meetings for you. It was so ridiculous because the ultimate dream would be a bunch of AI chatbots attending a meeting on behalf of their operators, and what would the point of that even be?
I think it was Angela Collier on YouTube if you want to share some rage.
My current employer is pushing AI HARD. Like “throw out old processes, 10x everything, the singularity is here so we can’t work the way we always have”.
The thing is, the best use case for AI I have found is replacing middle management. The bots are pretty good at summarizing a bunch of PRs and doc updates into weekly bullet point progress updates (which is 90% of how those managers are judged). I’ve flirted with the idea of making an AI team manager to replace the helicopter EMs and PMs and let the devs focus on the dev’ing.
That idea got shut down quite quickly… wonder why.
When Amazon announced in late October that it would cut roughly 14,000 corporate positions while leaving its warehouse workforce largely untouched, it signaled something executives have been quietly preparing for: AI’s first major casualty isn’t the factory worker. It’s the middle manager.
If you’re looking at new, a Quest 3S is the cheapest at $350, the equivalent of a Samsung UHD 55 inch TV. Not really cheap enough. But probably a VR headset is never going to be able to compete head-to-head with a TV because it has to have a higher resolution than the TV in a smaller space, so it’s always going to be more expensive. My hope is that it just gets good enough, maybe 1080p PPD equivalence while TV manufacturers keep chasing resolutions that don’t make a difference.
Yeah, that was a subsidized price when Suckerberg thought we’d all be buying real estate in the metaverse or whatever… looks like the actual price of the tech is still too high.
Really the best thing about AI is that it made everybody stop trying to make vr a thing as much, because you’re right, the use cases are already spelled out and it’s pretty much a dud (in terms of being shoehorned into everything).
I always thought it could be useful to use NFT as a proof of ownership in a software, for example you buy a game you get an NFT that proves your ownership, down the line you sell the game to someone else, you handover the NFT and bam you are no longer the owner. But software companies won’t use that as it would create a resale value and THEY want to sell new games not le YOU sell your games.
I’ve thought about this to. I think that is the best use for them, the problem is it would require an internet connection to check the blockchain and authenticate that you still own it or it doesn’t work so it’s not ideal.
I played an MMO in 2002. People made financial transactions for things in a digital universe. That MMO shut down and the servers wiped around the time Bored Ape shit started. Made me laugh.
But then again, Steve Bannon once made a living selling WoW gold. Shit is wild.
I mostly play arcade games with wheel (FFB) and vorpx. Favorite ones are Burnout Paradise, The Crew 1, Wreckfest, CarX Street and NFS Most Wanted.
Older games tend to have compatibity issues, lackluster ffb and driving feel, and sims don’t get my blood pumping. I like to drift and speed in an open world with music, so after about 10 years of testing various games and series, those are the ones I found to work well for me, run well, have nice FFB, and not require online servers to run.
Thanks a bunch! I don’t have a wheel but I’ve got a couple friends who looove theirs. I mainly played Initial D growing up, so I’d love a game that has great feedback and drifting!
Best drift game in there is Carx Street, but it’s a bit too “sim” for me. I love it and drifting was a challenge, but it’s great!!
That said, can’t beat the endlessly large Crew map and drift cars feel quite nice and each have their own drifting personalities. Non drift cars basically can’t drift tho…
To be fair, nfts and vr were never forced on consumers quite like AI is. VR is incredible for certain types of gaming. NFTs are also incredible too. They allow you to quickly identify morons with disposable income.
You had me in the first half, ngl
Correct, the only idiotic thing about VR is buying your hardware from Mark Zuckerberg. As the folks in the VR community here are already aware, I got my Steam Frame the other day and basically the only reason I’ve had to take it off my face since then is because the thing has a finite battery life.
It’s funny how people were comparing the Frame to Quest, saying it’s DOA because of the price, niche device only for a few enthusiasts.
Meanwhile, the Frame is flying off the shelves and the waitlist seems to be twice as long as the number of the units available. :(
It turns out there really is a market for a standalone capable wireless headset provided that it actually respects your privacy.
It also has the valve factor. In a landscape that consumer electronics are anti consumer, it’s more alluring to buy something you might not need if it’s not enshitified.
For example, I don’t really need a steam controller but boy do I want one.
I don’t want to sound like too much of a fanboy, but I’ve owned every first-party device of theirs so far, even the old physical Steam Link, the OG Controller, and the Vive which I count as theirs, and they’ve consistently hit the sweet spot of what I want out of hardware:
No hostility to the user; very tinkerer friendly; a good balance of build quality, ergonomics, and features without going into diminishing returns; long-lasting software support (even the market failure of the Steam Link has recent firmware updates); forwarding wider Linux and gaming software ecosystems; etc.
At this point, I’m just grabbing them if I have even an occasional use case for them, and I don’t regret it one bit. My Frame comes in tomorrow, and I’m very excited.
It’s a good product that doesn’t request you to sell your soul to use it. It’s definitely expensive but for people who have that money and are into VR it’s the best thing ever.
I found a Meta Quest 2 at a thrift store for 20 bucks. It needed a new face cushion so I ordered one online and a Meta Quest 3S showed up instead.
So, like, hopefully one day they’ll be CFW for it.
They shipped a whole ass headset when you ordered a face cushion? Damn dude, nice
Swappable battery back?
Can you explain why you love it so much? I was going to give it away to my friend that did not win the lottery after only a day.
Battery life is terrible. Interface outside of games is super unintuitive imnho. I still can’t figure out how to actually move the central window or right clock in desktop mode. I also can’t figure out how to install apks. I want to install android plex. And the game I had super high expectations for, the 11 table tennis is meh.
Overall my experience has been very sweaty and frustrating. I’m genuinely curious if it really sucks or I’m just not the target audience. I really wanted to love it, but I find it not worth the money at all. Like $500 maybe would’ve been ok. To be clear, I’m very technical - both professionally and as a hobby.
You can move the main center window and the dashboard bar by grabbing the long skinny horizontal stripe beneath either them, same as moving any other floating window. Unless you hit “float in world” on the center window the dashboard/taskbar/clock will remain pinned to the bottom of it.
The inverse L shaped grab handle on the lower right of any window allows you to resize it. When you are holding it, pushing the analog stick forward or back will move it closer to you or farther away.
Word on the street is that you can use FrameDrop to put .apks (and other executables) into your Frame’s library. I haven’t had occasion to try it; my main interest in onboard software has been regular productivity-ish apps that run natively in Linux. I stream actual games from my desktop PC, which is approximately three million times more powerful than the Frame itself.
That VR Rogue Squadron game was some peak shit ngl
VR and AR both have massive unrealised potential. It just seems the tech isn’t quite there to break through just yet, especially for AR.
I’m in my 40s and I just want to let you know that people have been saying this since I was 16.
Which is one of many reasons I’m not running out to buy a VR/AR rig.
Unfortunately there isn’t a lot of money in that market anymore, since it’s not AI.
Hard disagree on VR.
As far as I can tell, VR is 100% fully realized. In the future, you will be able to do everything you can do in VR right now and nothing more than that, but it will be a better experience, smoother, higher res, faster frame rates.
I think that it if there were a really compelling use case, people would put up with the current technical limitations to go do it.
I think we’ll slowly see adoption rise as software support & comfort improve, but this is basically the VR landscape: sims, games, porn, and some creative stuff.
I think the only really ground breaking thing would be if res became affordable enough to replace a 70" TV at a reasonable price, that–plus how much 3D kicks ass in VR–would definitely move some units.
I get nauseated very fast with a vr headset and I don’t think it will improve, there have been several generations of improvements where people have told me they are so good now, and every time I feel like crap within a minute or two.
I think that is another major problem with vr, it’s unusable by some percentage of people that I think is significant enough to affect the market (or lack thereof).
You’re absolutely right that is a major problem. The biggest reason is the mismatch between what your inner ear says (we are not moving) and what your eyes tell you (we are moving). I get nauseous really easily in VR.
That said I just bought a steam frame and have had pretty good luck because of how I’m using it. It’s completely wireless and I have a large space I can use it in. So I’ve been playing things that don’t require fast movement and where you have a space to explore / move around in. This allows me to physically walk around the real room while exploring in VR. It’s made a huge difference but not everyone has the luxury of a big empty room they can use for that. I just mention this in case anyone else was like me and wants to do VR but gets nauseous easily.
Yup, that’s definitely a real problem for broad adoption. Technically solvable, I think, if lag and frame rates improve enough, but I don’t know if it’s feasible, and there’s likely a bell curve where the cost to accomodate sensitive people isn’t worth it.
It’s also possible you could train yourself to get used to it, though it might take you more time than most, but what would be a stong enough motivation to get through that? And you’d need to basically buy a VR head set and wear it a few more seconds every day until you could get some use out of it. Pretty insane ask.
It’s like chatbots, I don’t have a use case for a computer kissing my ass. People tell me “oh set it up on your home computer and VPN in and then you can confidentially tell your sycophantic chatbot to cancel the meeting”.
I would rather just cancel the meeting?
The chatbot is just as likely to tell you it canceled the meeting without cancelling the meeting.
There was a recent talk by the guy that started Zoom and he was pushing an AI technology that would attend meetings for you. It was so ridiculous because the ultimate dream would be a bunch of AI chatbots attending a meeting on behalf of their operators, and what would the point of that even be?
I think it was Angela Collier on YouTube if you want to share some rage.
My current employer is pushing AI HARD. Like “throw out old processes, 10x everything, the singularity is here so we can’t work the way we always have”.
The thing is, the best use case for AI I have found is replacing middle management. The bots are pretty good at summarizing a bunch of PRs and doc updates into weekly bullet point progress updates (which is 90% of how those managers are judged). I’ve flirted with the idea of making an AI team manager to replace the helicopter EMs and PMs and let the devs focus on the dev’ing.
That idea got shut down quite quickly… wonder why.
Good news:
https://peoplemanagingpeople.com/hr-strategy/ai-middle-management/
+1
Severe motion sickness issues, even in traditional games, are more common than people think.
Yeah I don’t enjoy watching other people play FPS games either.
VR is cheap enough to replace a TV, just not good enough yet.
If you’re looking at new, a Quest 3S is the cheapest at $350, the equivalent of a Samsung UHD 55 inch TV. Not really cheap enough. But probably a VR headset is never going to be able to compete head-to-head with a TV because it has to have a higher resolution than the TV in a smaller space, so it’s always going to be more expensive. My hope is that it just gets good enough, maybe 1080p PPD equivalence while TV manufacturers keep chasing resolutions that don’t make a difference.
was more thinking of quest 2 when quest 3s came out and psvr2 pricing ($300), which isn’t that much above the cheapest non roku garbage
Yeah, that was a subsidized price when Suckerberg thought we’d all be buying real estate in the metaverse or whatever… looks like the actual price of the tech is still too high.
Really the best thing about AI is that it made everybody stop trying to make vr a thing as much, because you’re right, the use cases are already spelled out and it’s pretty much a dud (in terms of being shoehorned into everything).
You have to admit, though, the Metaverse was one solid comedy highlights reel from beginning to end.
I always thought it could be useful to use NFT as a proof of ownership in a software, for example you buy a game you get an NFT that proves your ownership, down the line you sell the game to someone else, you handover the NFT and bam you are no longer the owner. But software companies won’t use that as it would create a resale value and THEY want to sell new games not le YOU sell your games.
I’ve thought about this to. I think that is the best use for them, the problem is it would require an internet connection to check the blockchain and authenticate that you still own it or it doesn’t work so it’s not ideal.
Silly lemmy user thinking tech is suppose to benefit the consumer.
/s
I played an MMO in 2002. People made financial transactions for things in a digital universe. That MMO shut down and the servers wiped around the time Bored Ape shit started. Made me laugh.
But then again, Steve Bannon once made a living selling WoW gold. Shit is wild.
Came here to say this: I get ton of enjoyment out of racing in VR. The rests is capitalism at its worst.
Favorite VR racing game? I’ve got a couple kits but I’ve never played a racing game in VR!
I mostly play arcade games with wheel (FFB) and vorpx. Favorite ones are Burnout Paradise, The Crew 1, Wreckfest, CarX Street and NFS Most Wanted.
Older games tend to have compatibity issues, lackluster ffb and driving feel, and sims don’t get my blood pumping. I like to drift and speed in an open world with music, so after about 10 years of testing various games and series, those are the ones I found to work well for me, run well, have nice FFB, and not require online servers to run.
Thanks a bunch! I don’t have a wheel but I’ve got a couple friends who looove theirs. I mainly played Initial D growing up, so I’d love a game that has great feedback and drifting!
Best drift game in there is Carx Street, but it’s a bit too “sim” for me. I love it and drifting was a challenge, but it’s great!!
That said, can’t beat the endlessly large Crew map and drift cars feel quite nice and each have their own drifting personalities. Non drift cars basically can’t drift tho…
VR is also great for movies!
I stole an NFT once, that was kind of cool.
You wouldn’t download a car